Forums > Queen - General Discussion > Thoughts on Thor Arnold and Lee Nolan's eleven year friendship with Freddie

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NeverTooLate user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 02 Mar 19, 19:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hello All!

Hope you're all enjoying this lovely Saturday.

I'm waxing a bit and contemplating: to me Freddie is an amazing icon. His being gay is only but one facet of himself. Not unimportant, but I believe his light would have been as bright and dynamic no matter what his sexual orientation or preferences were. He had natural, raw talent. He was his very own performance art piece--ever changing, evolving, emoting, exploring.

He clearly had both masculine and feminine energy, like many humans do. He could nurture his friends and taking care of others, and he also had his own need to be taken care of, protected, and cherished. It all makes Freddie interesting.

For any fan to deny Freddie's own truth and subvert it to project their own fantasy of a bisexual (or even a struggling heterosexual) Freddie onto him is to deny Freddie himself, a special, unique and beautiful human.

At least, that's how I see the whole issue of "Freddie's sexuality."

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Posted: 02 Mar 19, 20:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

NeverTooLate,

Thank you for your most thoughtful and eloquent commentary about Freddie! Nice job of capturing the essence of this beautiful and complex man.

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Posted: 02 Mar 19, 23:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Very well put NeverTooLate!!!
It is very often asked.....which Freddie do you like better??? 70's or 80's Freddie???? To which I have thought long and hard about!!! As with most love.....i just Love 70's Freddie with all my heart!! That's the first Freddie I was introduced to, the most Ethereal Freddie, the True Mysterious Freddie!!!!
I absolutely Adore the 80's Freddie also!! .......i know for certain had Freddie Not changed, had Freddie Not grown emotionally, creatively, physically......had he stayed static.....he would not have been the musical genius that he So was!!!!!!! To pick only one Freddie to adore.......is to miss the absolute genius that Was Freddie Mercury!!!!!


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Posted: 02 Mar 19, 23:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hey Blenkolove! - I'm in Colorado. Came out here in '84 for school and never left. I haven't been back to the Tampa Bay area since the late 80's but I would LOVE to. I miss grouper sandwiches!!! I still have friends back there and I've been thinking about planning a trip back.

Ha Ha no I'm not British. "Not Quite A Shilling" is a line from the song I'm Going Slightly Mad from the Innuendo album. I love that song and video!

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Posted: 02 Mar 19, 23:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Speaking of the I'm Going Slightly Mad video I recently read something that I think was from the director (his name escapes me but he did a lot of Queen's videos) where he was talking about what a professional Freddie was. He did mention something about the entire bottom of one of Freddie's feet was basically an open sore but he didn't let it affect his performance in the video at all. Maybe that is what Brian May was talking about? Ugh I hate to even think about it....That song and video are a masterpiece in my opinion!

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Posted: 02 Mar 19, 23:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ah ha Thor you ARE saving some tidbits for the book! Good for you guys!! I do love your quote about JK Rawlings and the same WILL be true for you and Lee I KNOW IT!

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 00:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi Rainbow, Peter had enough stored (non-perishable) items to fit everyone's taste on any occasion. If not, he would just send our poor Phoebe out to fetch them. Phoebe always did the task with a smile on his face, unless he had been awake for over 24 hours but he would try. Bless you Phoebe!

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 00:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thank you All for your support and many well wishes about our book.

CHEVYMAN user is on Queenzone.com

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 01:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Never to late I have to disagree on one point I truly believe he loved Jim emotionally as well as physically he had found that missing piece he had been searching for all his life.He enjoyed sex with men or he wouldnt had pursued them but he just hadn't found that one he bonded to emotionally yet .I'm glad he did it was a love not understood to many that know his story thanks to the press but hopefully this book will be the light at the end of the tunnel.If he were alive today I think he would get a kick out of the fact everyone trying to figure him out.By the way he dated a young lady in college and she too said he talked to her about the fact he felt he wanted to be with a man so he just finally evolved through his music and biohemian rhapsody song if you listen to the lyrics it's there his masterpiece.

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 02:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Personally, I am so glad Freddie never took the role of 'Ambassador for Gays'........it just seems inconceivable to try and slap a label on him!!!! The absolute brilliance of Freddie Mercury was that he was who he was and lived it out loud, proudly and unapologetically. ....in PLAIN VIEW for everyone to see!! He hid nothing. He denied nothing......and for those who failed to see it.....he wrote it in ALL his songs for the whole world to hear!!!!!!! That is Far more Authentic than getting on a soapbox!!!! That's the Brilliant GENIUS that is and was Mr. Freddie Mercury!!!!!

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 03:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Blenko agree with you totally if a person just listens to his music it screams out loud I'm so glad he was an artist and had a way to channel his feelings it must of been like a weight was lifted.He even went on stage with a mineshaft tee shirt on didnt anyone pay attention and then they ask so funny.Beautiful spirit he was

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 03:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote



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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 05:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thor/lee:

I asked this before, but it may have gotten lost, but I wanted to know on your last visit in '91 to Garden Lodge, did you see reporters staked out by the entrance? Brian and Roger stated that for the last 18 months of Freddie's life, reporters were outside Garden Lodge constantly, I was wondering how much of a disturbance did it cause on a day to day basis.

I also wondered did you ever see Freddie's other home, Stafford Terrace?


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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 06:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

NeverTooLate

Your post is the first I saw and all I can say is 100%! And TY for explaining so well.


Hello All!

Hope you're all enjoying this lovely Saturday.

I'm waxing a bit and contemplating: to me Freddie is an icon, full stop. Not any other qualifier needed. His being gay is only but one facet of himself. Not unimportant, but I believe he would have been as equally talented regardless of his sexual preferences. His brilliance in pursuit and exploration of his own musical and lyrical adventures is proof of his natural, raw talent. He was driven to music, to performance, to expressing his soul's desires, inner emotions through his lyrics, musical arrangements, and presentation. He was, in essence, his very own performance art piece--ever changing, evolving, emoting, exploring.

It's a bit strange to me to try and contain him through the concept of absolutes. He clearly had a duality inside of himself, like many humans do: the masculine and the feminine, the ying/yang. He had a need to nurture (his calling himself "mother" and gathering his young male friends around him and taking care of others), but he also had his own need for strong masculine identity within or beside the feminine. It all makes Freddie interesting. He probably was attracted to women, meaning the emotional, feminine part of himself, as well as the inner child, wanting to have the kind of support that would come with unconditional love. *Not* a sexual attraction, but an emotional need nonetheless. So he was drawn to certain women as comfort and support. And his physical desires were met best (and ultimately solely) through his sexual attraction and pursuit of male lovers. Freddie was gay, but he wasn't *only* that, as people are complex and multi-layered.

For any fan to deny Freddie's own truth and subvert it to project their own fantasy of a bisexual (or even a struggling heterosexual) Freddie onto him is to deny Freddie himself, a special and beautiful human.

At least, that's how I see the whole issue of "Freddie's sexuality."


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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 06:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi Thor and Lee, hope you are enjoying this weekend.

I have a question...

It seems like FM had a crowd of screaming girls after him from a young age. This group of girls has grown exponentially to unimaginable numbers over the years, and a lot of us have followed him from almost the beginning.

I'd like to know what FM and also the rest of the band thought of this. All the screaming ladies throwing various items onto the stage. Of course they love their fans, we buy the records, and still do.

I'm leaving this question very general, just to see what FM may have mentioned or said the rest of the band mentioned or the others told you directly.

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 07:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

One more thing:

I have seen a lot of tragedies in my career. I have never seen this mentioned, in and amongst the arguments about when Mr Mercury contracted HIV etc etc...

To me, at the point he got sarcoma, KS, it was just not good. I am giving this man props for surviving for at least four years? or more with this type of cancer. That takes inner strength, that resolve, and some garnering together of physical strength to even get out of bed.

Cancer alone is a beast, this man rallied against the worst of possible players. I have seen comments that he could have survived a few more years if he could have gotten treatment. But sadly, it had already gone beyond that.

This man is so admirable to me.

The only part of Mercury and Me written by Mr Mercury's boyfriend/husband, that made me cry and I am a stoic, is the part when Jim recounts Freddie muttering or something to himself while they were in bed and Jim asked what are you doing, and Freddie said PRAYING. That got to me.

Of course it was painful and debilitating, and he had excellent doctors to counter that. The emotional part, he had his best friends around. The mental part, it seems he was trying to make peace with.

For an ornery, moody Virgo, sure looks like he was a stellar man overall.

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 09:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thank you very much for the birthday wishes Rainbow61. :)

I can't believe someone would just contact you with so rude questions, Thor! Probably that person thought they might get some *scoop* and in their desire to do so, forgot about basic human decency??!?! *eye roll*

Oh, this thread has taken rather serious turns, discussing Freddie's death and sexuality so. :(

But while we're here, as I see it, I hope no-one's achievements in life are because of their sexuality. Mainly anyone's sexuality or lack thereof shouldn't & I hope to everyone doesn't matter. It's one (of many, to be fair) criticism of the film that has bothered me. Some reviewers have said that Freddie's creativity and Queen's success was entirely BECAUSE he was a gay man.

For me, Freddie was extraordinary because he was Freddie. Which is not to say that his sexuality doesn't matter. He was a gay man and that was a huge part of his life and who he was. It certainly had input on his creative output, because of course all that we are and all that we experience does influence all that we do. And in the early years when Freddie was still discovering his sexuality and must have felt all manner of things, maybe music offered something solid and certain and that he could have control over in that time, I have absolutely no idea and wouldn't wish to assume. But I think it does a huge disservice to reduce anyone to one aspect of themselves. I don't think we can entirely talk about what Freddie did or did not say to the world at large regarding his sexuality, because in the time he was living he couldn't be fully open to the world at large - due to press and public perception and wanting to protect his parents. It is hard to think on it from our current 2018 perspective. EDIT because I just realised it is 2019, hahahaha!!!!

In terms of everyone's emotional connections in life, emotional connections are not necessarily at all romantic and I would hope every one of us has emotional connections with people irrespective of a person's gender. In terms of Mary if it is really her we're referring to specifically, she must surely have been one of the few people who remained close to Freddie who had known him before he was famous at all? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I sometimes reflect how weird it is that any new person I meet now in life will never know the me I was at any point before today. It's that thing where you can meet up with your best friend from school, say, and you might not have spoken in ages and you might not share much if anything in your current lives or know much about each other's current lives, yet you know each other in a way that makes it easy to be with each other - I guess because you grew up with each other. I'm explaining badly.

I feel part of why Mary must have been important to Freddie was she knew him... well, before he became Freddie Mercury. I feel it may have felt (emotionally) important to have someone who had known who you were when you had nothing and were not famous at all. Such a person would surely see you, understand you and know you in a different way? I don't want to get into talking about Mary too much as I know people have polaraised views about her, though I personally wish I could shift this and that everyone would have love towards Mary and towards Jim, for clearly Freddie loved both of them: Jim romantically and Mary as Freddie's lifelong friend who he could trust and seems to have been able to share certain things with he couldn't with others (and I am sure equally there were different things he shared with others and not Mary, but it was Mary who was there for him in that different way.)

Hmm.... I meant to just thank Rainbow61 in my response, so I don't know why I seem to have now constructed an essay.

Sorry for any stupid things I have said in here, as I am sure I have said many stupid things! I feel particularly daft saying this stuff in a a thread with Thor and Lee as obviously they actually knew Freddie and yet I am writing something about a person who I obviously don't truly know at all in any way. I can only apologise and say I intend it all only in love. x

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 14:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

As yes, the topic of Mary...

I read both Jim Hutton's and Peter Freestone's books. The way they described their experiences with Mary after Freddie passed is what I believe to be the other side of Mary. She wasn't very nice to the inner circle of Joe, Jim, Phoebe. It seems Freddie didn't know that side of Mary or perhaps she hid it well.

In Jim's book I read she told Jim H. and Phoebe she didn't like Joe and that Joe "would never be allowed in the house again." Jim said she uninvited Joe from their small Christmas lunch. Jim said she also tried to get Phoebe to uninvite him (Jim) from the Christmas lunch by hinting that maybe Jim should just stay in Ireland when he went to visit his mom after Freddie died.

Both Jim and Phoebe wrote that Mary told them to collect the gifts they gave to Freddie over the years because otherwise she'd be selling them off.

In Jim's book he talked about the few occasions he brought Mary bunches of flowers after Freddie's death, even though she had been cold to him. It was his way of checking on her and willing to offer comfort.

Because of reading what Jim and Phoebe wrote about what all took place and how they were treated, I confess my view of Mary was not an entirely positive one.

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 14:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I read that a friend of Jim Hutton's shared in a forum that Jim and Mary mended their relationship in 2000, ten years before Jim died.




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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 15:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

NeverToolate this is my feelings for Mary also. Thor also said when he visited Garden Lodge shortly after Freddies death that Mary didn't come across friendly like she had been previously. My thoughts are that she tolerated Freddies gay lifestyle and friends because she had to but after his death , she didn't have to act anymore . I also found it strange that in an interview in 2000 she claimed phoebe, Jim and joe had deserted her and she claimed the remaining band members were jealous of what she had been left .