Forums > Queen - General Discussion > Thoughts on Thor Arnold and Lee Nolan's eleven year friendship with Freddie

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doughnut user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 15:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

NeverToolate this is my feelings for Mary also. Thor also said when he visited Garden Lodge shortly after Freddies death that Mary didn't come across friendly like she had been previously. My thoughts are that she tolerated Freddies gay lifestyle and friends because she had to but after his death , she didn't have to act anymore . I also found it strange that in an interview in 2000 she claimed phoebe, Jim and joe had deserted her and she claimed the remaining band members were jealous of what she had been left .

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 15:36 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

NeverToolate this is my feelings for Mary also. Thor also said when he visited Garden Lodge shortly after Freddies death that Mary didn't come across friendly like she had been previously. My thoughts are that she tolerated Freddies gay lifestyle and friends because she had to but after his death , she didn't have to act anymore . I also found it strange that in an interview in 2000 she claimed phoebe, Jim and joe had deserted her and she claimed the remaining band members were jealous of what she had been left .

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 16:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I promised myself that I would not get embroiled in the Mary debate again, but I cannot believe that Freddie did not know the "real" Mary. That discredits and diminishes Freddie's feelings and his intelligence.

Phoebe has repeatedly said that the issue after his death was the British probate system, and I believe that. I do think some hurtful things happened, but people often react in deep grief differently than they might normally. I also believe that Freddie was not unaware of the probate laws thanks to Jim Beach and either he or Jim could have/may have told them they would have to leave. He did provide all three men with homes, or money for homes. That indicates to me that he knew and they knew they would not be staying.

I don't believe Mary waited decades to reveal her true self. Freddie knew her much longer than he knew any of the other people mentioned and I remain trusting of his judgement.

NeverTooLate user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 16:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

If Mary had treated the boys badly for a day or a week then I'd attribute it to the stress and grief of losing Freddie and being pregnant. But that's not what either Jim or Phoebe described in their books. I'm assuming the stories as told by Jim and Phoebe and others are mostly accurate and what I took away was each sounded hurt and disappointed.

spiralstatic user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 17:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

OK, I definitely didn't mean to begin a debate about Mary. I only mentioned her since a poster had voiced their perception that Freddie was drawn to certain women and I'd (I gather now incorrectly) assumed the implication there was Mary.

I'll only say to people who have very strong views: you realise of course that you don't have Mary's side of any of the stories you recount. Of course everyone has flaws and does wrong things, but not everything you read will be complete truth and that doesn't have to mean anyone has lied.

10 people go to a dinner party (I don't know why I picked a dinner party as an example, haha - I have never been to a dinner party) tonight and they all recount their experience of the night tomorrow, you'll get 10 different stories as you get their experience and their perspective. In many ways the stories will probably agree but there will be differences and complete inconsistencies in what people say. No two people have the same experience of the same event as your experience is just that - your own experience.

Also of course not everyone gets on with everyone else in the world which doesn't necessarily mean one of the people is a bad person.

Freddie and Mary were close for over 20 years. I'm pretty sure that a) she wasn't pretending to be someone she wasn't for a full 22 years and b) Freddie had a better sense of her than anyone here. She has never revealed where his ashes are or anything else too personal about his life.

This is the trouble: her name need just be mentioned and people get upset and angry at her.

Anyway, since people feel as they do already, perhaps better to just move on from Mary. I'm sorry I mentioned her.

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 18:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

No need to apologize Spiralstaic. We all know Mary is a hot button topic. I truly did mean to stay out of it, I should have known commenting would only prolong the topic, so I'm finished with the subject now.

I'm off to see Hamilton tonight, though we'll be fighting some mid-west snow. It was spring here last week and we are right back into winter. I'll be so happy when the weather can finally make up it's mind.

NotQuiteAShilling, I was happy to hear the origin of your name I'd always assumed you were British! I was listening to I'm Going Slightly Mad in the car today and I heard lots of phrases that would make cute screen names. Clever of you to find one.


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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 18:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Trying to understand the situation between Mary and Jim and Phoebe as described in their 2 biographies is not personal or something I intended to be personal.

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 18:34 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi All!
Has Villiers done a Mary Topic??? She has a way of putting all of this in perspective. I am waiting for her YouTube updates!! I understand all sides of the Mary 'coin'.....but if true, I for the life of me can't understand how she 'lost' contact with Freddie's family???????? For some reason.. ...Death seems to never bring out the Best in people!

For Villiers.......wouldn't chopsticks be Better for eating chips than a fork?????? Lol

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 18:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

In agreement that it isn't personal just a viewpoint . I just can't help but feel disappointed at how things played out for those at garden lodge . I truly believe that Freddie would have been saddened to see how his family were treated at this difficult time. I feel it wasn't just Mary if I'm honest , I feel Jim beach had a hand in it too as an executor. We will never know but something was going on and those guys weren't welcome once Freddie had passed on.

Obviously it would have been silly for them to stay on there for a,long period as they would have to have moved on




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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 18:42 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Blenko!ove I think Mary became a bit of a reluse also she remarried so it's possible her husband didn't want the shadow of Freddie over their marriage and therefore she broke contact with Freddie parents .
Who knows though

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 18:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

This is just my opinion on Mary I think she played games with Freddie's head maybe he felt guilty for not marrying her but he definitely trusted her to do what he asked after his passing which she didnt do.She had one face toward his friends but I think deep down she blamed Jim and his other lovers for their split.I think what she has done towards the fans isn't very nice either but that just goes to show you who you can depend on.And it's a shame she turned like she did because his friends would've been there for her if she needed them.I can honestly say he had a good group of guys when he was in Newyork.

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 18:47 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

.........not to be contrary.....But avoiding the shadow of Freddie would be impossible while living in His home........just sayin

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 19:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I spoke with a 70 year-old acquaintance the other day who mentioned she had seen Bohemian Rhapsody. She loved it and wants to learn more about Freddie. I also know a 17 year-old who loved the movie as much as she did. The 70 year-old is a multi-lingual, highly-educated, European born, world traveler…the 17-year old is a kid from an economically depressed, not very diverse, small town. That is the true MAGIC of Freddie…He still casts a wide net after so many years!

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 19:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Right Rainbow!! Freddie's appeal goes across all age groups and now so many new people are finding him. I'm often surprised to find older friends who are newly fascinated by the man, and it is often people I would never have guessed. I introduced my 5 year old granddaughter to him, and she likes a lot of the music. She saw a canvas print I have of him in my computer room that is from a concert where he was wearing his red and white striped shorts and she asked me why he had underwear on when he was singing on stage. It was the perfect opportunity for costumes- across- the years educating.

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 19:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

On the flip side of that coin.....i just had a patient around 70 years old.....tell me she liked Queen......but assumed Freddie 'killed many with his virus! I IMMEDIATELY told her that he was nothing short of responsible once he learned he was positive!!!!!!! I am always amazed by people who choose to be ignorant. In case she was interested, i named off a few good books to read regarding Freddie's life.

CHEVYMAN user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 21:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I can remember my uncle getting sick with the virus he kept getting bronchitis and they couldnt get rid of it so my grandma rushed him to dr one night because he coudn't breath they said he had pneumonia and was very sick and put him in hospital so they began running tests on him and he had AIDSt the type of pneumonia he had was associated with the new virus that was out and they told my grandma there was no treatment it was terminal .He lasted about one week and passed in the hospital in 1988.We all were so upset he didnt even look sick he was tall about 240 but he had that cold for a while and was complaining of being tired to his partner so after my uncle's passing his partner got tested and his test was negative .I guess the point I'm trying to make is noone knew they had it till it was too late so I dont think anyone is responsible for this terrible virus that has took millions.

thundergod user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 22:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hey Spiralstatic,

You are, "Like a Circle in a Spiral, like a Wheel within a Wheel." ....LOL !

Credits: (Songwriters: Marilyn Bergman, Michel Legrand, Alan Bergman, "The Windmills Of Your Mind", Oscar winner for Best Song in 1969 and originally sung by Noel Harrison)

Seriously, I enjoyed reading your thoughts on some major topics dealing with Freddie. The tender way you treated the subject was entirely admirable. Don't worry about not actually knowing Freddie in real life. Many superfans here know way more than I do or am able to remember about the man.Your thoughts are valuable here.

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 22:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Wow, NeverTooLate,

Is this information regarding Mary what you deduced from Peter and Jim's books, or did you know Mary at all? I learned my lesson twice to stay away from this topic, but I appreciate your input.
I witnessed Mary as a polite, smiling, extremely quiet, but a special and long-lasting, extremely close friend of Freddie's. I must admit, I did, get the feeling she did not want to deal with any of Freddie's gay friends, not even his long term housekeeper/chef (Joe), constant and loyal attendant (Phoebe) and lover (Jim). However, she was asked by Freddie to join us several times, which she did, but I am not quite sure if he had to drag her down to make a quick, polite, appearance for us.

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Posted: 03 Mar 19, 23:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Well, I realize now that should have read everyone's comments before adding my own. I went from the last comment I made till the most recent. This topic will not end. After Freddie's death, I had reason to be in London with a friend of mine. I rang up Phoebe to see if he might want to get together. He did and introduced my friend for his first time at the Garden Lodge. He was also gracious to allow us into Freddie's bedroom which was, so far, left intact. He showed us the collage of photos that Lee had framed and had given to Freddie. It was on his night-stand.Wow, did I feel good despite being sad.
Phoebe directly told me that he was not happy with this, his final week. He did mention some "unkind" things that
he was put through. It was particularly bad for him when
he "supposedly" was allowed to take the many items that Freddy had given him. After all, they lived in the same house for six years and Freddie loved to give gifts. Mary
put a stop to this that last week feeling that the three guys were stealing from her and also hired security agents.
Peter was not allowed some of the things he was entitled
to keep. How would anyone feel about that! Freddie's
MOST TRUSTED male worker and friend, being watched for potential stealing if not already, highly suspected.
I am a BIG Phoebe fan and I must say that that last meeting with Phoebe in London, left a bitter taste in my mouth. Just think if someone, these days, said to any of us, off the cuff, "Oh, Freddie Mercury, he was overrated and perverted, I don't like him.." How would we fans think of that...Kinda warm and fuzzy? I think not!
The woman should not be trashed but her methods perhaps need some apologizing for.


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Posted: 04 Mar 19, 00:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thor I agree with you Mary is a hard subject to discuss she has been so nasty to Freddie's fans as well.She let them write memories and messages on the wall to the property in his honor for years and then decides she no longer wants fans to leave flowers or anything so sad.To me she comes across as bitter about something.But on the other hand what really upsets me to treat the people that took care of Freddie so terrible in the home that they had lived in is to me uncalled for.Freddies death affected so many of you guys including the ones that cared for him.I couldnt sleep at night if I had done those things to someone that cared for the dear friend I loved.