Forums > Queen - General Discussion > Thoughts on Thor Arnold and Lee Nolan's eleven year friendship with Freddie

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Freddienotfreddy user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 15:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Just a FYI :)

I Know earlier in the week there was some discussion of the ticket prices for the We Will Rock You musical. I'm in the Houston area and it is coming here in October. The tickets went on sale this morning and are what I feel pretty reasonable, with the lowest price tickets being about $29.50 up to about $59.50. I think the more outrageous prices may have been through third party ticket brokers. I purchased my ticket directly from Ticketmaster. Of course, I don't the situation in other areas.

mika251 user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 16:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mary and also Brian mentioned, Freddie knew something is not right with him during the Magic tour and what is the reason.

He looked great and healthy but it doesn't mean he didn't feel tired and not fit.

I think it was the interview with BBC where Mary mentioned that at the end of Knebworth show she and Freddie look at each other and they knew, that it's over, there won't be any other show anymore.

thundergod user not visiting Queenzone.com
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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 16:05 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Welcome Mica!
And your English is VERY good, better than some native speakers...lol
I have no insight into the Freddie/Jim relationship other than from my observations of the two interacting, To me, there was evidence of deep love. You could easily find this evidence in the way they looked at each other. Additionally it was evident in the way he protected Jim (and I must say, vice versa).
Jim was not an intellectual and he was socially awkward and shy but I believe he had a big, loving heart and would always give Freddie anything and everything he was capable of giving. Unfortunately in this particular case, he gave his life..

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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 16:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mika don't worry your english is fine...welcome :)

I understand where you are coming from regarding Jim and Freddie as I thought that myself at times but then I am not sure if Freddie would have stayed with him just for that reason. I could be wrong obviously as I don't know Freddie. Villiers did say in her live that at the end Freddie wouldn't let go of Jim when he was changing shifts with one of the others guys , until he got a cuddle or kiss from Jim.
case as it's clear how much Jim adored him.
In Jim's book he confirms that Freddie didn't find out until three weeks before he passed away. I guessing he must have thought the chances of Jim having it high. I did read an interview Jim gave where he said Freddie had suggested several times to get a blood test but Jim refused for the reasons in his book.
I'm a romantic so I'm hoping Freddie didnt have any guilt being with Jim.

One thing that I did feel after reading Jim's book is that I wish that Jim had walked away in the early days when Freddie was messing him around. Only because I felt that Jim was a normal guy pulled into a mad life with Freddie. It was the period when Jim would be used to make Winnie jealous that I found sad. Because he was a normal every day guy makes it all the harder when people call him a gold digger etc etc. He didn't ask to be pulled into Freddiee's life as such, Freddie picked him.

I can't blame Jim for falling in love as Freddie has the most gorgeous dark eyes . I never knew he was such a good looking man until recently.

mika251 user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 16:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thundergod,

Thank you for your nice words.

Regarding Freddie and Jim... You made me cry ?? there is nothing more to say ??

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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 16:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't know why there are question marks at the end of my sentences, I haven't written them :)



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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 16:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't know why there are question marks at the end of my sentences, I haven't written them :)



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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 16:14 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't know why there are question marks at the end of my sentences, I haven't written them :)



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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 16:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mika

I am always a bit skeptical about Mary saying she knew Freddie had HIV/AIDS during the magic tour. For me it makes Freddie look in a bad light as that means he didn't tell Jim and that opens a big can of worms. I tend to belive the timeline of 1987 as this is what both Jim and Peter have said. Being as they all lived together I would have thought if Freddie had known in 1986 he would have told all the guys in the house.

I could be wrong but that is what I tend to belive.

CHEVYMAN user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 16:20 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

FreddienotFreddy, yes I'm sure he wasnt feeling his best like alot of people you just keep working and ignore it.As time went on and it had developed into AIDS he probably started having alot of infections colds maybe maybe skin wounds or spots that wouldnt heal.My uncle kept getting bronchitis and he couldnt get rid of it.He finally went to hospital one night and they put him in hospital with tests they said he had pneumonia but it was a certain kind that only people with weak immune systems get so to make a long story short his pneumonia diagnose lead to his AIDS diagnosis.

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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 16:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

@FreddienotFreddy, I'm presently on my lunch hour @ work. I got seats for "We Will Rock You" for $46/person. I'm in the Midwest. I was pleasantly shocked it was so reasonable, esp. these days. Thanks, Katydyd5, for sharing the original info! Well, it's back to work.

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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 16:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Doughnut

I think that he suspected this issue. That's all. I'm pretty sure he felt "different" but it could be everything. Some other illness. Or simply age. He was forty, I'm 33 and I can't imagine how demanding it was to run around the stage and sing my lungs out every other evening. But I'm sure he knew there won't be any other tour . Whatever the reason was.

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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 16:29 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thor your words about Jim and Freddie are lovely.

Jim being shy and socially awkward must have been hard for him at times. Imagine being that way and you meet a famous rock star.



CHEVYMAN user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 16:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Mika, you and my son have the same name I agree with doughnut I think what Mary has said painted Freddie in a bad light I dont see him intentionally giving Jim Aids.So I dont buy her story one bit nor do I believe some other things she has said she didnt lie like miss Barbara but she tried to paint herself in a innocent light a saint moreless and yes that wasnt nice of me but he loved Jim from what I have heard and read so she definitely didnt know then.We have to keep in mind Jim could've already had Aids himself but it's not fair to speculate because back then they were scared and didnt even know 100% what caused it.

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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 16:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Doughnut:

They. may not have screened for HIV for tour insurance in 85/86. I believe the tests weren't as accurate as they became a few years later anyway, but it's possible they didn't even screen for it then.

Now for bands touring they do screen for that and all STD's, and other diseases in order to get insurance.

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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 16:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Freddie couldn't have felt good about Jim's HIV diagnosis, but I don't think guilt was the main driving force even at the end. The reason being Freddie didn't just keep Jim in his life, he also gushed over his relationship with Jim. Unedited 1987 ibiza interview with David Wigg sampled in both The Untold Story and the 2012 Great Pretender doc officially released by Queen Productions:

David: "What would you like to say?"

FM: "I'm very happy in the relationship I'm in at the moment. I don't have to try so hard. I've got a very understanding relationship. I've finally found the niche I've been looking for all my life. And no fucker in this universe is going to upset it."

That doesn't sound like a guilt driven relationship, imo. A letter written in Freddie's hand to Jim has been attached in this thread a few times esitimated date being very late 80s to 1990 as well that reads "Dearest, thanks for the roses. You make me very happy. Yes happy as I have never been in my life."

Peter Freestone answered the question 'Who was the love of Freddie's life?' With "Garden Lodge. Garden Lodge and Jim." I think even Peter originally suspected Jim would come and go, but even he couldn't seem to deny there was something different about him. Recently the fans have unearthed a Peter interveiw online that discusses Freddie's final months. I'll summarize: "Freddie would hold onto Jim's arm or waist and just look at him, not saying a word. At first we didn't know what to make of this. Was something wrong? Freddie was sleeping alot by then and we thought it strange that he wasn't speaking. Just staring at Jim in silence and held onto him. We figured out that it meant he wanted a kiss or a hug from Jim. Once Jim gave him that, he would turn around and go back to sleep." To me, that says he found comfort in Jim, not necessarily guilt.

Could there have been other Jims (good guys Freddie felt were 'the one')? Possibly. I always say his diagnosis forced Freddie to sit down. Stop running around trying to "fuck half the wold" as freddie once said. It forced him to give a man a fighting chance and have a real relationship without cheating, hangups or insecurities. He never seemed to stay with men without cheating etc long enough to experience a "normal" relationship. He was happy with Jim before the diagnosis but after it, that relationship was tested time and again and I think Jim may have just been the right fit.


I'm sure Freddie suspected he gave Jim HIV as evident in Freddie's reaction in 1990 when Jim got his diagnosis and that had to carry a level of guilt, but there's a definite difference between Freddie's guilt driven relationships carrying on vs the relationships he chose to keep on his own. Another example of that being Peter Freestone. Freddie held no guilt toward Phoebe that was ever picked up on and when Peter tried to leave, Freddie wouldn't hear of it. "I still need you. Stay." Phoebe was a part of the family and Freddie wished to keep him around not because he had promised to in earlier years (he hadn't, either) but because Phoebe had proved himself over time and Freddie trusted and loved him.

I tend to go by Freddie's own written and recorded words when discussing Jim. It certainly isn't cut and dry, but Freddie took comfort in Jim's presence at the end of his life, and gushed about their relationship too many times for me to believe it was a majority guilt driven relationship.

There I go ranting again LMAO I need to stop

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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 17:11 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Villiers I love your rants.... you are so good with words and explaining situations.


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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 17:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Villiers2

Thank you again.

I have read and listened to everything you mentioned and I agree that there was definitely a big love around 1987.
I was rather thinking about the last two years, there is obviously no spoken or written word by Freddie from that time so we can only relate to other sources.
But I get your point and I decided to believe you :)

There is one moment in Jim's book I don't remember which year it was but Freddie wanted him to leave and then he changed his mind. Is there any more information regarding this? That is the point when I got the impression Freddie didn't care about Jim so miuch and was rather used to his presence in the house but not emotionally involved anymore.



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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 17:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I believe one of the attractions for someone like Freddie, with worldwide fame, is when they encounter someone who treats them as just another normal person it's refreshing. I've heard stories about different celeb types, including Freddie of course. There's a respect for people who aren't all in awe of them or their fame.

Here's a real life example: a coworker of a boyfriend (many decades ago in the '80s) was on a flight to or from L.A. She may have ended up in first class. Anyway, gent sits down in the other seat and they eventually get to talking. At some point he makes a reference to his identity and says his name. The old, "don't you know who I am?" No reaction, she's never heard of him. He says what TV series he's on. Um, okay, don't watch it, but good for you. No reaction from her then either, he's just a dude on the plane. He was *intrigued*. He asked her for her phone number before they departed the plane. I think she gave it to him but again, no big deal. I don't think he ever called her, but she wasn't expecting him to.

The guy was Richard Dean Anderson, star of "MacGyver." I was laughing when she told us this story. She really had no idea and just shrugged her shoulders and was neither impressed nor intimidated.

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Posted: 05 Apr 19, 17:27 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yes and your rants kind of forced join this thread, so thank you again. Finally there is someone to answer my questions. (Not only you but all the other people here.) So please don't stop! Thank you very much!