Forums > Queen - General Discussion > Thoughts on Thor Arnold and Lee Nolan's eleven year friendship with Freddie

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rennsage user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 12:32 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dustin, I don't think one can completely discount what Freddie said about her and how he acted around her. He did seem to care about her. I don't see just "guilt" over not marrying her in 1975 as being a reason for all of that.

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 12:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Emcee no from what I was told by Jim and Joe there was no difference between her before and after his death. If anything there was just less need for her to keep in contact with certain people. Someone on here a few pages back mentioned Mr Mercurys mother admitting Ms Austin stopped all contact with her. Why if you really cared about this person...would you then stop communicating with his family who apparently liked you a great deal? You really can't claim it was grief keeping her away when that interview with Mr Mercury's mum was taken some 20 plus years after his death. Seems to me she got what she wanted and no longer felt a need to keep up an act. But again I wasn't close to her. I'm just piecing together what I know and what I saw. As far as the men of the garden lodge tolerating her yes. Without saying too much nobody from the garden lodge was a fan of hers. That included the maids and cleaners who didn't live there. I don't wish to speak for anyone or cross a line but let's just say Ms Austin was a part of Mr Mercury's life that all of them understood was something they just had to live with. Joe was the most vocal about it. Jim was frustrated but kept it bottled up. Mr Freestome was stone faced up to a certain point and then it seemed to bubble over but no...none of them would have picked her to be a part of their lives.

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 12:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sm, well said I feel the same way you do.She is a manipulative woman.I said nothing about a sociapath.But anyone that holds on to a person for all of those years and doesnt want them to go on without her isn't a normal friendship behavior.She was always in his face it seems phoebe I believe said her attachment wasnt a healthy one.Noone that is well does that.noone holds on to a promise that they will leave you everything they have when they die when you are in your youth but she didnt let him forget.I totally get it and that's why I get alot of negative feedback from some followers.Everyone feels sorry for her.

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 12:48 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Yeah I get what you mean but remember this: all the romantic and sweet things Freddie said about her were always said in interviews for the press. I can't recall one private conversation that was reported back from a trusted source that said Freddie felt this way toward Mary. Even Mary herself said in her own interview "I didn't know how he felt about me because he never told me. I found out how he felt about me through his interviews."

I'm sorry what? Lol. The man that supposedly loved her like no other also didn't mention that to her at all? He only brought this up in interviews meant for the public? Sorry but I don't but any weight at all into what Freddie said about her in interviews. He also said he would have a child once he "found the right girl" in the same interveiw where he gushed over Mary lol.

I've seen no letters no unedited audio, nothing that leads me to believe Freddie felt that way about her. Meanwhile you have Freddie gushing over Jim both on paper and on audio and he went out of his way to make sure Wigg didn't print that he was talking about a man when he said he found the niche he'd been looking for all his life (so you know it wasn't just his fake Mary banter again) but he was referring to Jim.

That relationship according to Freestone and others was based on guilt. I don't believe for a second that Freddie willingly kept her attached at the hip because he enjoyed her company and felt a deep bond with her. Hell he went years living in different countries from her and never lost a moment's sleep lol.

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 12:51 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

@SM thank you for reporting Jim's thought about marriage. As I said I think Freddie would have been a good husband had he lived longer, he just didn't have much time to enjoy his settled down status, but I believe Jim, Joe and Phoebe (plus human and feline additions) would have been his forever family long into his old age if fate hadn't hit them so hard.

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 12:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Freddy darling, That was me that said she was a sociapath.I thought you were referring to recent activity.I modified my behavior on this thread so when approaching this subject matter it wouldnt offend anyone.But I'm gonna have to say what she has done isn't normal at all.Take from it what you want.stop making excuses for her.Noone made them for Freddie .If I were the poor guy I would've stayed away from London as much as possible.She was always like a bit of a leech .She was what she accused his friends of.Even Brian defends her and she talks terrible about them saying they are jealous of her.What is there to be jealous of.I see a woman that could have had a happy life instead she held on to a man that couldnt provide that for her.Now she is old and alone bitter and those years havent been kind to her it shows.Things could have been so different for both of them without the guilt that was put there.

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 13:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

CHEVYMAN

I pity her too, because I don´t think she has a very happy life. I think she hoped Freddie would one day decide to settle down and marry and have kids (like Elton John) and she wanted to stay around fot this case. It never happened and she became bitter. And she was always unfriendly to his gay friends because in her eyes they were the reason he wasn´t with her. It is not healthy and it is not right but some tiny part of my personality understands her behaviour.
Remember she had her first child in her 40´s, she got pregnant after he was diagnosed - I would say that was for her the clear indication there is no hope she will have kinds with him one day and she decided to have them with somebody else. But she waited and hoped for it the whole time until 1987. I´m pretty sure she is not a very happy woman with all the money and big house. She didn´t won at the end.

EDIT: Oh, I see you have written something very similar at the same time :)

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 13:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

> Jim was protective of Freddie and I am sure he would
> have read it before it was printed and got to edit it.

@Perk, I can't say if Jim had read the book before it was printed, but Jim certainly didn't edit anything, according to Tim Wapshott (the journalist who helped Jim write the book).

Interviewer: How involved was Jim in the editing process?
Tim Wapshott: Not at all. Jim was not a writer.

You can read the whole interview with Tim Wapshott here (first you will see a Russian translation, but scroll down and you will see the English original):
https://vk.com/@queenrocks-ekskluzivnoe-intervu-s-soavtorom-knigi-hattona-merkuri-i-ya

rennsage user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 13:01 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dustin, I totally get what you're saying. I just believe there was *something* there more than just guilt and obligation. If that were the case, I think there would have been more resentment evident on Freddie's part (who wouldn't resent someone you're just keeping around due to guilt and obligation?) and I haven't seen evidence of resentment.

No, I don't think he was in love with her. I don't think she was the kind of person he liked to hang around and have fun with (she strikes me as kind of dull). I think there was some guilt and obligation involved. But I also think there was some genuine caring and that he maybe saw her as a kind of sister or supportive relative. Not someone you have to spend every moment with, and one you can go a long time without seeing, but still like to know is there for you.

I'm fascinated with this subject because it's the one relationship of Freddie's I truly have a hard time getting a handle on. I do think the above is what I see from Freddie's side. I have a hard time getting a grip on what Mary's side was. I think she cared about him but I also think she had an unhealthy obsession. She never really moved on and built a life for herself after they broke up as a couple. His life became her life and that's unhealthy, and probably led to some strange behavior on her part.

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 13:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Ren, exactly

I feel the same way about the Mary subject. It's a really interesting part of his life and it's impossible to ignore since QP want so desperately to shove the false narrative down our throats.

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 13:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

> Anyone know about this extra teeth thing it’s been bugging
> me for a while since I read it on Peter Freestone’s blog.

@Perk, I don't really know, I have read different accounts about this and they haven't made it clear to me. I personally can see that his upper teeth are just big and he had an overbite. As for his lower teeth, we can't see them clearly, but here is a still from a video, you can see that his canines (?) protrude.

Attachment: 2019426655398144.PNG 551 KB
This has been downloaded 18 time(s).


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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 14:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dustin, Finally somebody that agrees with me.It also makes me wonder why they never included Freddie's very early college girlfriend of one year Rosemary Pearson to me that would be a crucial person to his early years just as important as Mary if not more.It would clearly be proof that he was gay she broke things off because of it and moved on.But hell no they didnt include her in their story plot.I have respect for her because even if she didnt want too she let him go.She knew he would eventually leave her to explore with who he was inside and she gave him up so he could do this.

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 14:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Dustin, I totally get what you're saying. I just believe there was *something* there more than just guilt and obligation. If that were the case, I think there would have been more resentment evident on Freddie's part (who wouldn't resent someone you're just keeping around due to guilt and obligation?) and I haven't seen evidence of resentment.

No, I don't think he was in love with her. I don't think she was the kind of person he liked to hang around and have fun with (she strikes me as kind of dull). I think there was some guilt and obligation involved. But I also think there was some genuine caring and that he maybe saw her as a kind of sister or supportive relative. Not someone you have to spend every moment with, and one you can go a long time without seeing, but still like to know is there for you.

I'm fascinated with this subject because it's the one relationship of Freddie's I truly have a hard time getting a handle on. I do think the above is what I see from Freddie's side. I have a hard time getting a grip on what Mary's side was. I think she cared about him but I also think she had an unhealthy obsession. She never really moved on and built a life for herself after they broke up as a couple. His life became her life and that's unhealthy, and probably led to some strange behavior on her part.


Rensage I agree with all you have said above.


We can't ignore the fact that Freddie clearly adored Mary although those around him daily, Peter, Joe etc etc could see a different part of her personality . I'm pretty sure that in Peter's book he said that sometimes Freddie couldn't always see a persons faults or choose not to see them and maybe this is the case with Mary.

For me, Peter sums up Mary pretty well in his book . He said that the friendship from his point of view was based on guilt on Freddie's part and that I firmly believe. Don't forgot he was with Mary for a long time before they had that conversation. No doubt her heart was broken as she thought she would spend her life with him , marry him and probably have children. That must have weighed heavy on Freddie's mind. To me I have found that Freddie wanted to keep her in his life, he bought her a flat nearby and gave her a job at Goose Productions. In doing this I don't think either of them realized the effect this would have on their lives.

The 'I won in the end' I just don't get as I can't see what she has won. Money doesn't make for a happy life in her case and her relationships didn't last. As far as we know she is alone now. I wonder if she had her own friends outside of Freddie?

It's all very complicated and something we will never get to the bottom off.

I am glad that Jim lived happily with Freddie. I feel Freddie was very lucky to have found a man like Jim . I can tell what a good person he was just from your comments Shaun. I also like how he became friends with many fans, that shows he cared. This is clearly not something that Mary did.

Shaun I just have one thing to ask if ok as it has been on my mind

In Jim's book in mentions the serious row they had in 1990 in which he was asked by Joe and then mary to move out. Peter said in his book that there were always people around willing to whisper things to Freddie to get close to him and score points, did Jim ever mention this to you. He says in his book how hurt he was that the people in Garden Lodge seemed to want him gone.

I wonder if they had a row , which couples do, and perhaps Mary or someone else began painting Jim in a bad light encouraging Freddie to end the relationship.






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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 15:25 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Jim didn't mention it but Joe did. As I've said before Joe was very vocal about the issues he saw in the garden lodge and he did say it took him a long time to see Jim as something more than just another bloke Mr Mercury was dating. He said it wasn't until he saw Jim taking care of Mr Mercury at the end of his life that he understood what they meant to each other. I have to imagine before that point Jim was probably just another guy taking up room in their lives and as I've mentioned before, none of them seemed to have anything at all in common outside of Mr Mercury so I don't see Joe fighting to keep Jim in the home during those fights. Joe said there was a certain someone who did insist to Mr Mercury that Jim was disposable though. During those times of fighting and arguing as normal couples do they had the added stress of another force outside of the garden lodge telling Mr Mercury Jim was not needed. Who that was I will not say but it's not hard to guess.

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 15:53 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

that's interesting , thank you.
Seems to me that Jim put up with an awful lot in his time with Freddie but looking at Freddie's history with men , I guess it's to be expected that they thought he would come and go like the others. I was left with a similar feeling from Peter after reading his book although give him his due, he did say that after visiting Jim in his new home 'it was proof to me, if proof was needed, that Jim and Freddie had enjoyed a unique relationship '

I find it so weird that in all the time Jim lived there, they never knew this. It is all very strange and I feel for Jim as it appears Freddie did all the chasing to start with.

Did he ever mention Winnie? that made me so cross . I felt it so angry that Jim was used to make Winnie jealous.

I shouldn't say this but part of me almost wishes Jim hadn't met Freddie as I'm sure his life would have been a lot more simple.



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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 16:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

FreddieDarling,
Shaun was there, you were not. Please, let the man talk of his impressions of her without him having to feel badly about what he observed.
And, here we go again about Mary.

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 16:18 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Doughnut,that would upset me too if I were Jim.But in the end Freddie I think just wanted to see If Jim was serious about him.Jim won in the end and it looks like he got his man.He had to jump through some hoops but he finally got Freddie to settle.I just hate that settling came too late and Freddie lost his life.

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 16:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Russialand,
John Murphy was NEVER at Garden Lodge. Only Lee and I were.as of 1986. You can trust me on that.

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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 16:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

doughnut

"I won at the end" - I would say, she refers to the public opinion and the fact that she was considered to be love of his life - even today it is widely believed and in those days, it was an undeniable fact.
I have read some articles released after Freddies passing and there was no single word about any man living in Garden Lodge. Mary was with Freddie in his last moments and she lived with him in GL. She was "the widow" and everybody pitied her. So even it wasn´t true in reality, in the eyes of everybody else except for Freddie´s inner circle, her dream became true.
Until Mercury and Me was released.

I would really like to know, what Dave Clark thinks about her. They seemed to be friends.



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Posted: 26 Apr 19, 16:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thor don't worry it's been quite a civilised talk about Mary....makes a chance. She is of much interest to us so she keeps popping up lol

How are you, what have you been up to ? How is the book publishing coming along ?