Forums > Queen - General Discussion > Thoughts on Thor Arnold and Lee Nolan's eleven year friendship with Freddie

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Tonya user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 05:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks Thor!

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 06:40 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hello Tonya and welcome. Glad you are here!

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 08:55 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thor, I'd been wondering if you'd had girlfriends to fit in in your youth too. I just never asked in case you thought I was too nosy!
The bi screamers will be claiming you're bi because of this too. They have no concept of how necessary it was to fit in and act straight.

It's all interesting to me to hear experiences of gay men in the 70s because I am writing a story about one. It's a challenge to write.

I'm not a gay man myself obviously, but I've experienced homophobia against myself (!) As a teen, I wasn't feminine, I didn't really identify with other girls much or join in conversations about hot boys. As a result, kids speculated i was a lesbian and I was bullied severely for it. I had a whole class chant "dyke" at me once and people refusing to sit next to me in assembly. People shoving me up against walls and claiming they'd been "lezzed up" by me. Had i really been a lesbian, I'd have been suicidal about it. So I can totally empathise with gay people. I hate the gay erasure because I have had a taste of how homophobia feels and know how resilient they have to become.

That's why I always step in when people simplify Freddie's life as "yeah well he liked women so his life was easier". It really wasn't in his youth.

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 09:00 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

So when people say his sexuality doesn't matter, in terms of understanding him as a person it totally matters.

In terms of his music of course it doesn't matter what he was. Though I think it did contribute to the campiness of some of the songs. Some are just like: a straight guy wouldn't have written that!

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 11:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sponge Caves wrote:

LOTV wrote:

Regarding Freddie's loves, I just watched it again. I stand by that both our hosts come across as just fine and I really don't see why the furore, it's a bit of harmless fun. Tacky in places but on the whole it's very complementary and warm towards Fred. I think some on here are in danger of canonizing the man.

Also, Phoebe says Freddie slept with both (although I do think that may just be mischevious editing ;-) )


Yeah...no one's ever denied Freddie had slept with women at some point. A lot of gay men do at first.
You're lowkey a bi-screamer and it's boring.


You know what's boring, a screaming Queen finding offence where there isn't any. See look, I can throw insults around too.

I couldn't give a shit about how many women he did or didn't sleep with. I couldn't give a shit.

The only reason his sexuality is of slight interest to me is because it was part of who he was . This 'bi-screamer' nonsense is just paranoid bullshit.

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 11:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

thundergod wrote:

LOTV,
Go a little easy on me, ok? Since this site is visited by a few trolls, I just assumed this was some intolerant and trashy information.
Both Lee and I have explained how the "F" word affects our feelings. I had never seen this link before and it didn't look like
something I wanted to see.. I didn't know if Freddie had ever used that word with us but I'm pretty sure he didn't.
I have already apologized as soon as I found out the truth. I am not prissy nor ever have been


@Thor, apologies, no offence intended.

I understand how growing up and now living in a world that still thinks it's everybody else's business which gender an individual sleeps with has been and is harder for you. I appreciate the 'f' word has been hurled about to hurt and is synonymous with nonacceptance and homophobia. Well I understand in principle but of course I can never truly understand. The closest I have come is to have had to deal with mild racism. I certainly would never use the word. Clearly Fred felt in certain company he could own it.

My general point is lets not sanitize him and understand and discuss all of his character. With regards to lamping the troublesome photographer I still think good for him, the bloke had it coming, but it's not exemplary behaviour.

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 11:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

SmokyQuartz wrote:

Sponge Caves, something you mentioned about Freddie calling fans 'ugly,' I read that too but I believe it was in the early days, they were young and starting out and it was a private joke, amongst friends. The joke being that you can't have ugly people at a Queen concert.

I agree with you and others here that Freddie should not be sanitised. At the same time I think some fans hang on to his 'bad' stuff because they think it makes their bad behaviour ok, and they take what he did out of context (I'm not saying you did). A lot of the examples given by people took place privately, with close friends who wouldn't take offence, etc. Also they were years apart, but when written in one paragraph make it look like he was doing that all the time.

No one would want Freddie to be a saint, but I get the impression he was essentially a good person with morals. Far too many people have said that he was kind, warm hearted and generous. At the same time he took no shit from people and by all accounts you had to work hard to gain his acceptance. Good for him.

He said in one interview that he lets his characters loose at the right times, I think there were many facets and he did let them loose when he felt it was appropriate.

Someone mentioned he punched a photographer?? I've never heard that one....what happened? Why? (edited, LOTV, it was you and yes I agree re his imperfections, it allows others to have them too)


Smoky, I'd have to dig about because I can't remember which gig it was. Pretty sure it was in the UK.

There was a photographer in the front row and Freddie asked him to stop the flash getting in his eyes. The bloke continued and an altercation followed with insults being thrown back and forth. Later in the gig Fred had enough and jumped into the crowd and belted him. He got in a bit of trouble for it I believe.

There's an audio of it I heard years ago, maybe worth a search?

Sorry that's all I can recall off the top of my head.

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 11:30 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

thundergod wrote:

Well Dustin,
The fact that Lee and I knew nothing about this woman and when we were in London, still did not hear of her, says something.
Freddie never once since I've known him, ever pointed out a woman as his desire.
I dated about five girls in High School in order to fit in with the crowd and cause no attention to myself. In the early '70s, you could
not admit you were gay and especially if you could "pass" as straight. No name-calling, no shoves into the lockers and no bullying
was just fine with me. So, the "beard" philosophy is definitely true. Also, a good amount of gays even went as far as marring and
having children to ensure they could still become doctors and lawyers and professors. If you did not live as a gay man (or woman)
in the 1970's you would just have NO idea of how it actually was then.


Thor, how did you muster up the ability to be sexual/intimate with women? Was it repulsive?
There must have been an element of self hate, which I think is one of the most abhorrent aspects of having a sexually intolerant society. The secret pain and misery it causes.

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 11:31 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

LOTV wrote:

Sponge Caves wrote:

LOTV wrote:

Regarding Freddie's loves, I just watched it again. I stand by that both our hosts come across as just fine and I really don't see why the furore, it's a bit of harmless fun. Tacky in places but on the whole it's very complementary and warm towards Fred. I think some on here are in danger of canonizing the man.

Also, Phoebe says Freddie slept with both (although I do think that may just be mischevious editing ;-) )


Yeah...no one's ever denied Freddie had slept with women at some point. A lot of gay men do at first.
You're lowkey a bi-screamer and it's boring.


You know what's boring, a screaming Queen finding offence where there isn't any. See look, I can throw insults around too.

I couldn't give a shit about how many women he did or didn't sleep with. I couldn't give a shit.

The only reason his sexuality is of slight interest to me is because it was part of who he was . This 'bi-screamer' nonsense is just paranoid bullshit.


You're the one who's brought up 'but he could have been on drugs and didn't remember' several times. In this thread and the last. You wouldn't mention it if you didn't keep thinking about it.

Can't stand people who deny caring about a topic they wade in on.


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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 11:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

thundergod wrote:

OK Katydyd,
I hope people can understand this so I'll try not to go too far. When I was 6 years old I wound up in the playground behind a big tree
and I put my hand down a very cute kids pants. He was wearing his cub-scout uniform and I thought he was dreamy. From age 9 to
14, the little old lady who lived nextdoor started to rent out her upstairs rooms to college students. I would turn out all my lights, pull
up a chair and spent hours trying to catch this guy either coming out of the shower, having sex with a girl, or masturbating. Even if I
stayed awake until 4AM with school the next day, it was WORTH it. I got such a secret thrill out of this. I guess my point is that I always
knew I liked men but I had no idea what that made me. Finally I saw a David Susskind (popular in the late 60's) interview with a
"homosexual." I was relieved that I had a new understanding of who or what But my preferences at such an early age had no name for it.
I went the next day to the Hofstra University Library and spent the whole day looking up books on homosexual behavior well that was sort
of a relief for me but I also became very disturbed.that I was something that people hated and despised. I was miserable until age 17
when I left home on Graduation Day and met and fell in love with a very special person. That was great and I was finally content with
myself and happy.


What a candid response. What's great about this story is that it's a tail of young lust, the genders of all characters don't really matter. I really wish that everybody could see it like that.

I remember seeing some pornographic playing cards when I was young. Remember those tacky things? I got stirrings looking at all the images including very well endowed men with fantastic physiques. I spent a couple of years wondering and worrying what that made me.

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 11:49 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sponge Caves wrote:

LOTV wrote:

Sponge Caves wrote:

LOTV wrote:

Regarding Freddie's loves, I just watched it again. I stand by that both our hosts come across as just fine and I really don't see why the furore, it's a bit of harmless fun. Tacky in places but on the whole it's very complementary and warm towards Fred. I think some on here are in danger of canonizing the man.

Also, Phoebe says Freddie slept with both (although I do think that may just be mischevious editing ;-) )


Yeah...no one's ever denied Freddie had slept with women at some point. A lot of gay men do at first.
You're lowkey a bi-screamer and it's boring.


You know what's boring, a screaming Queen finding offence where there isn't any. See look, I can throw insults around too.

I couldn't give a shit about how many women he did or didn't sleep with. I couldn't give a shit.

The only reason his sexuality is of slight interest to me is because it was part of who he was . This 'bi-screamer' nonsense is just paranoid bullshit.


You're the one who's brought up 'but he could have been on drugs and didn't remember' several times. In this thread and the last. You wouldn't mention it if you didn't keep thinking about it.

Can't stand people who deny caring about a topic they wade in on.


I can't stand people who find offence where there isn't any to reinforce a self created narrative of being oh so fucking liberal.

He could have been on drugs and done gods knows what. It's possible, how do you know, you weren't there either.
I've conceded based on what Thor and Lee tell us it's highly unlikely.
I've never slept with a man, but how do you know I haven't? I've conceded to friends that in my younger sexually free days I may have 'done something' with a man if it had pleased a girl I thought was super hot. But I didn't, so I'll never know.
In the moment, these things can be fluid, especially under the influence.

I look forward to you now claiming I'm suppressed and a self hater, a homophobic homosexual.



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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 11:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Lotv you're asking Thor if he was repulsed by women because he was gay? Really? Aren't you the same dude talking about how much you don't care about gay and bi shit? You're also the same one that goes keeps claiming he could have had sex with women under heavy drugs and just not remembered it. For someone who doesn't care you sure bring it up every chance you get buddy. Careful. Your troll is showing.

To answer your retarded question, even Adam gay Lambert had sex with a women and said it felt good but it wasn't his cup of tea. And IM being called homophobic here. Ironic!

With love, from one troll to another.

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 11:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

LOTV wrote:

Sponge Caves wrote:

LOTV wrote:

Sponge Caves wrote:

LOTV wrote:

Regarding Freddie's loves, I just watched it again. I stand by that both our hosts come across as just fine and I really don't see why the furore, it's a bit of harmless fun. Tacky in places but on the whole it's very complementary and warm towards Fred. I think some on here are in danger of canonizing the man.

Also, Phoebe says Freddie slept with both (although I do think that may just be mischevious editing ;-) )


Yeah...no one's ever denied Freddie had slept with women at some point. A lot of gay men do at first.
You're lowkey a bi-screamer and it's boring.


You know what's boring, a screaming Queen finding offence where there isn't any. See look, I can throw insults around too.

I couldn't give a shit about how many women he did or didn't sleep with. I couldn't give a shit.

The only reason his sexuality is of slight interest to me is because it was part of who he was . This 'bi-screamer' nonsense is just paranoid bullshit.


You're the one who's brought up 'but he could have been on drugs and didn't remember' several times. In this thread and the last. You wouldn't mention it if you didn't keep thinking about it.

Can't stand people who deny caring about a topic they wade in on.


I can't stand people who find offence where there isn't any to reinforce a self created narrative of being oh so fucking liberal.


I look forward to you now claiming I'm suppressed and a self hater, a homophobic homosexual.



Sorry to disappoint you but you clearly don't know what I'm about. I'm not some easily offended teenage tumblrina.

I'm just bored with your repetitive comments.

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 12:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

LOTV let it go. You're the one that keeps bringing it up. For someone who "doesn't care" about the topic, you sure do hold on to it.


"Lotv you're asking Thor if he was repulsed by women because he was gay? Really? Aren't you the same dude talking about how much you don't care about gay and bi shit? "



Hate to agree with that guy, but true.



YAWN.


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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 12:10 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Stop The Madness wrote:

Lotv you're asking Thor if he was repulsed by women because he was gay? Really? Aren't you the same dude talking about how much you don't care about gay and bi shit? You're also the same one that goes keeps claiming he could have had sex with women under heavy drugs and just not remembered it. For someone who doesn't care you sure bring it up every chance you get buddy. Careful. Your troll is showing.

To answer your retarded question, even Adam gay Lambert had sex with a women and said it felt good but it wasn't his cup of tea. And IM being called homophobic here. Ironic!

With love, from one troll to another.


To credit you with an answer you don't deserve.
It matters not to me whether an individual is gay, bi or straight. However I am interested in sexuality and experiences that are different to my own.
I have a gay friend who has said the thought of sleeping with women is pretty repellent to him. He tells some very funny stories about his university encounters with beards.

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 12:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Typical, one can't ask questions or challenge perspectives without being accused of all sorts.

You do get how that does nothing for equality don't you?

Perhaps some aren't bright enough to understand the subtle difference? Or choose not to in the name of appearing liberal. Challenging is now apparently trolling.

If you're not intelligent enough to understand the notion that I am tolerant of all sexuality yet still intrigued by 'the other' then I am onto a losing cause explaining it.

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 12:17 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

In all fairness LOTV...You do say that you don't care what Freddie was and when his friends and people say he was gay, you keep saying that nobody knows for sure that he didn't have sex with women while on drugs and just didn't remember. So you're asking what he was and you're given the answer.....then claiming it's not certain. It sure does come across as you not wanting to accept Freddie for what he was. You want to know about it....He was gay. Most gay men have sex with women before coming to terms with it. I have had 3 gay friends in my life who have slept with women for years before coming out. One was married to my childhood best friend.


Just my two cents.

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 12:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sponge Caves wrote:

LOTV wrote:

Sponge Caves wrote:

LOTV wrote:

Sponge Caves wrote:

LOTV wrote:

Regarding Freddie's loves, I just watched it again. I stand by that both our hosts come across as just fine and I really don't see why the furore, it's a bit of harmless fun. Tacky in places but on the whole it's very complementary and warm towards Fred. I think some on here are in danger of canonizing the man.

Also, Phoebe says Freddie slept with both (although I do think that may just be mischevious editing ;-) )


Yeah...no one's ever denied Freddie had slept with women at some point. A lot of gay men do at first.
You're lowkey a bi-screamer and it's boring.


You know what's boring, a screaming Queen finding offence where there isn't any. See look, I can throw insults around too.

I couldn't give a shit about how many women he did or didn't sleep with. I couldn't give a shit.

The only reason his sexuality is of slight interest to me is because it was part of who he was . This 'bi-screamer' nonsense is just paranoid bullshit.


You're the one who's brought up 'but he could have been on drugs and didn't remember' several times. In this thread and the last. You wouldn't mention it if you didn't keep thinking about it.

Can't stand people who deny caring about a topic they wade in on.


I can't stand people who find offence where there isn't any to reinforce a self created narrative of being oh so fucking liberal.


I look forward to you now claiming I'm suppressed and a self hater, a homophobic homosexual.



Sorry to disappoint you but you clearly don't know what I'm about. I'm not some easily offended teenage tumblrina.

I'm just bored with your repetitive comments.


Which is OK because I'm bored of your self serving evangelizing.

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 12:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

LOTV are YOU not intelligent enough to see that you're spewing crap left and right with this? You claim you dont care what he was but you're being told he was gay and you're STILL sitting here trying to push that bullshit theory about him being fucked up on drugs and fucking chicks and just not remembering it and now you're claiming he may have even hid it from his gay and bisexual friends. Come the fuck on. You're not interested in others sexuality. You're interested in trying to make the man something he wasn't.


He was homosexual. He had sex with chicks before coming out like most gays do. Build a bridge and get over it. Take your drug theory with you.

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Posted: 19 Dec 17, 12:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

The Squirrelly One wrote:

In all fairness LOTV...You do say that you don't care what Freddie was and when his friends and people say he was gay, you keep saying that nobody knows for sure that he didn't have sex with women while on drugs and just didn't remember. So you're asking what he was and you're given the answer.....then claiming it's not certain. It sure does come across as you not wanting to accept Freddie for what he was. You want to know about it....He was gay. Most gay men have sex with women before coming to terms with it. I have had 3 gay friends in my life who have slept with women for years before coming out. One was married to my childhood best friend.


Just my two cents.


Squirelly, I accept your point of view and can see you case. However hopefully I have explained myself in recent posts.

You have the ability to be succinct and engage properly in debate, unlike the moron on this thread. Thankfully you are far more pleasant than I am.

I'll let that particular Devil's Advocate viewpoint die.