Forums > Queen - General Discussion > Thoughts on Thor Arnold and Lee Nolan's eleven year friendship with Freddie

forum rss feed
Author

thundergod user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 940 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 06:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Oh yes Rainbow,
Lee and I were kind of distraught. Joe and John to a lesser degree because they both were pursuing their
1983 boyfriends. Freddie explain it to us as his time in New York was over because citizen and tax
requirements in the UK. Had Freddie stayed, I think we would not have made the decision to move to
San Diego. Without Freddie and Phoebe and with Joe and John never seeming to be available anymore for
us, we knew the fabulous SIX would be dissolved. California was the best option to find new friendships and
perhaps lovers. It worked out well for us.

Rainbow61 user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 186 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 07:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thor,

Gosh, that sounds quite painful! I greatly appreciate all the typing you do to keep up with these questions considering how uncomfortable it is. I type very slowly...I can't imagine the glacial pace I would post on this thread if I typed with arthritic knuckles! Are you thinking of getting the right knee replaced as well?

Rainbow61 user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 186 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 07:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thor,

Just to clarify, my last comment "that sounds painful" was in reference to the arthritis! Even with arthritic knuckles, you still respond much faster than I do!

In regards to Freddie moving...thanks for sharing how that impacted you. Goodbyes are always so difficult. It seems like that couple of years with Freddie was a magical time of fun and friendship. Did you get the sense that this was difficult for Freddie also, or did he tend to keep his feelings inside?

miraclesteinway user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 419 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 08:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi guys, I've been admiring this thread from afar, because I've been backed up with the lurgy and sleeping a lot this week, and because I was in London last week to see the Q+AL show at the O2 (which I unashamedly LOVED).

Thor - that thing about Freddie not wanting to be called Fred is interesting. I'd read it before that he hated being called Fred, but Brian May frequently refers to him as Fred. Perhaps this is because before he was famous he was known as Fred Bulsara, and I'm almost certain that I saw on "The Untold Story" a painting or something signed "Fred Bulsara". I guess if you meet someone who refers to themselves as one name for a few years and then changes their name, sometimes it's difficult not to revert back to the name you originally knew them as. I must confess I've had to apologise to a couple of transgender friends of mine for using the pronouns I formerly knew them by, automatically (I know Freddie wasn't trans, but there was the transition if you like between Farokh, Fred, and Freddie. Perhaps there was even Frederick in there somewhere - I wonder if Mrs Bulsara called him Farokh until the end?).

The other interesting and lovely thing in this thread is that it's clear now to everyone reading that Freddie was unashamedly gay, and out of the closet, in his personal life. Disregarding the fact that the public weren't told (and it's none of their business), it's great to know that Freddie lived knowing there was nothing to be ashamed of and that it's completely natural. To be fair that was one thing that Brian May said on TV the week after Freddie died - the question was something like, "what do you hope people learn from his death, Brian?" and Brian said something like "that there's nothing wrong with being gay". So obviously in his professional circle it was something that he didn't hide either.

Elton John said he came out as bisexual because it was simply easier than saying he was gay, somehow it would be more acceptable if people thought he was just kind of experimenting. At the time he made that remark he was free to say what he wanted of course. We live in very different times now here in the west where largely we are able to come out without too many repercussions. Of course there are still problems in families which is always a very sad situation, and the political climate has lurched quite far to the right in recent years even in what we thought was liberal Britain (In 1997 Britain was portrayed as the coolest, most liberal place on earth. In 2017 it's.... a bit different, sort of like 1977 with the racism but not so homophobic).

Freddie Mercury was never going to be revealed as an uncomplicated character, but the fact that he was Indian, gay, born an immigrant in Zanzibar, died an immigrant in London, and somehow in between those two points became the most revered rock musician of the late 20th Century is still pretty unfathomable. There are people who are born into the industry who can't do what he did.

I do have one question. The others in the band seem to be more inside the industry - more in touch with what others are doing in the rock and pop scene, they have friends who are also rock musicians etc, but Freddie seemed to be an outsider. Have I got that right?

thundergod user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 940 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 13:37 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi Obsidianwillow and welcome to the thread,
I did not meet Freddie until 1980 .Lee met him in 1981 Neither of us would be the ones to comment on things from the early years.
Some of our members know everything there is to know about Freddie throughout his life. Hopefully one will answer that question
from pg 32.for you.


thundergod user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 940 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 13:39 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Correction: Page 41...sorry.

thundergod user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 940 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 13:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Obsidianwillow,
Regarding the Garden Lodge videos:I only found out about these tapes recently from a participant on my old thread. I think they
are a hoot. Sometimes the amateur video is too dark, but you still get the idea. The highlight was the Garden outdoor lunch where
inside furniture and table settings were put outside. It was so wonderfully done by all the staff / friends of the Garden Lodge..

thundergod user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 940 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 14:07 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Correction: Change page 41 to 31.on the Obsidianwillow reply above. .I hate typos!

Katydyd5 user not visiting Queenzone.com

Champion: 57 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 14:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks so much for answering so many questions! This has become my new favorite stop online, well, after my addiction to FB. Sorry to hear about your arthritis Thor. I've had both knees replaced and they are great! I'm about to have a quick eye surgery to support an orbital fracture, so I'll be bionic before long. Life is still great, no matter what!

At some point Lee mentioned that Freddie came to blows with Paul Prenter, and also shared the "hot food" story. I've read that Freddie could exhibit quite the temper, but I wasn't aware that he could get physical. Did you see the temper or the physical nature of anger/frustration often? This question is coming from someone who is no angel when provoked, though never physical. We are all human!

Thanks also for answering the question about boredom and the need to keep moving. As a former teacher, I'm thinking I've seen a lot of kids like that over the years. I'm sure many of them grew up to be exceptional too.

FlashElephant user not visiting Queenzone.com

Be Gentle, I'm a newbie: 10 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 15:33 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Captainjory is obviously refering to me as that Youtube commentator. Though she/he didn't even have the guts to use my name, only hinting who it could be. Should I take offence at your innuendo?

First of all my writing style is no way near the style of that 753019 or whatever he is called. Secondly, I don't even have the same arguments as the YouTube commentator has and I have also asked here about some regular stuff.

I just said that the YouTube commentator's point of view seems every day more understandable. His way of expressing himself maybe a bit rough, but I get his point. And my own argument was that this thread (or actually the previous one) is nothing like it was in the beginning. And others have said the same thing.

At times it's not enjoyable to read. People who call themselves tolerant and call other people haters argue about everything and call people like Mary, Straker, Barbara whoever with all kind of ugly names. At the moment there are huge double standards in this thread.

And like I said before who the hell is arguing with a straight (or a gay) face that Freddie wasn't gay? It's like saying water isn't wet or it's not cold in the south pole. And if some people don't buy any stories about uncle's or other relatives, well who can blame them!

captainjory user not visiting Queenzone.com
captainjory
Bohemian: 174 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 15:52 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I merely thought it was a coincidence you both appeared at the same time. Calm yo tits.

captainjory user not visiting Queenzone.com
captainjory
Bohemian: 174 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 16:15 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I am really nosy about what the fight was between Freddie and Paul Prenter!

There are only a few times I've heard about him getting physical with other people, and it was mostly mutual. e.g Freddie and David Minns came to blows multiple times but frankly, they sound as bad as each other (Freddie socked him in the mouth after David smashed a clog over his head, which I shouldn't laugh about, but I do)

Never read anything about him swinging punches unprovoked. Well, apart from the time he allegedly smashed a mirror over Pete Brown's head...aaaaand when he slapped a boy in school. So I'm interested. Also we all know Bill Reid bit him and was an angry sort of man, but did you ever see Freddie thump him back?

Winnie and Tony Bastin were apparently violent/unpleasant to him too, so would you say he had bad taste in men or did he deliberately seek out volatile people for the thrill? It's well documented he would engineer conflict to get him fired up for a show. Sounds fucked up, but interesting all the same.

Invisible Woman user not visiting Queenzone.com
Invisible Woman
Bohemian: 354 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 19:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

@Thor,
Yes, that's exactly what I wanted to say, I believe what you say,what Peter Freestone say,what Jim Hutton said.

But I think,if someone doesn't believe, let they believe in what they want. It's the choice of that persons.


Someone mentioned comments from You Tube. I watched many of footage and read a lot of comments,there are very insulting comments, full of hate, about Jim.
The other thing I noticed is that people who say that Freddie was bisexual and that Mary was his only and real love,as the greatest proof of the that is because she inherited the most of his wealth.
For me that is no proof, on the contrary.
I wonder what you think about this.
What do you think, why his testament was so?
Did you ever talk with him something about his will?
Of course, I also want to read Lee's answer.
Thanks.

thundergod user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 940 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 19:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Flash Elephant,
I'm glad you're enjoying the thread!

thundergod user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 940 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 19:57 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hey captainjory,
I never witnessed Freddie being violent, but I saw the aftermath of it. Lee has a picture of the famous Hotel room in Vancouver B.C.
with a champagne bottle smashed through the wall Freddie posed in this picture with a proud, big smile on his face. If Lee and I
write a book, look for that picture...lol
He had a quick temper but never toward his inner circle of friends. He usually saved that for anyone of his temporary lovers. As was
stated many times, Freddie got creative energy after a "good" fight and almost thrived on it.

Sheldon user not visiting Queenzone.com

Champion: 91 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 19:59 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thor, Lee, I have a rather difficult question. It is not by any means my intention to attack this thread. I've said before that this thread is simply fantastic and has brought so much joy to us fans.

But do you think Freddie would be happy with stories about his personal life being discussed on a public forum online? If I have understood his character right from various documentaries and texts, he was a very private man. But now ordinary people, many of whom were not even born when he lived, can read about topics such as how he hooked up with guys, about his weaknesses and about various aspects of his life that were during his lifetime deliberately hidden from the fans.

Perhaps his strive for privacy has been exaggerated? Perhaps if would be alive, he would tell us that he is fine with this thread (and still we could not be a 100% sure, because people often say that they are fine with something even if they are not)?

captainjory user not visiting Queenzone.com
captainjory
Bohemian: 174 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 20:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

OMFG I want to see that photo! I recently saw a copy of the tour manager's bill for that smashed up hotel room...nearly $900 for the wall to be plastered amongst other things.




captainjory user not visiting Queenzone.com
captainjory
Bohemian: 174 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 20:12 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Sheldon, have you ever listened to the David Wigg tapes? Freddie was really open and frank in those, talking about how he was shit at relationships and admitting he was a big ho. Sometimes I wonder about the privacy too because sometimes he'd be open. Maybe he wanted the best of both worlds, to keep himself to himself yet also 'real' enough to make himself relatable to fans. It must have been a difficult balance.

It's weird for, as cagey as he was over being in male relationships, he was always blurting out how promiscuous he was. E.g. Leiden 1984, he said sex was his hobby. 1982, he replied 'having a lot of sex' when asked what he'll be doing in 20 years time. And back to the Wigg tapes, he admitted he was 'very promiscuous', had slept with a lot of people around the world and had tired of it. So that part of him was definitely not hidden from fans. Just their gender really, but most people guessed anyway.


Also Thor, I know you say you only saw the aftermath, but was Freddie retaliating with Bill? I can't imagine him not hitting him back. I mean, you would stick up for yourself and return blows wouldn't you? Well I would...

thundergod user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 940 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 20:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hi Invisible Woman,
Oh NO, Freddie's Will was NEVER, EVER brought up. We had no business enquiring about that and he had no intent to share it with us.

You are correct. There is no proof that Freddie continued a sexual relationship with Mary, but he trusted her above all. She knew him
early on, spent a good deal of time working for him, including showing up at special events with him as a cover for his homosexuality
and she was often his confident. A lifelong friend through thick and thin and a rock he could count on always was good reason to leave
her a lot of his wealth- well perhaps not as much as she actually got.
All that being said, I truly believe he would not have approved of her cutting herself off from his family, cutting herself off from his loyal
fans. and sadly, the way she treated his in-house staff who besides her, were his closest and dearest friends.

I did not know that Jim was hated. I can't imagine why. He provided love and comfort through the entire illness and that alone, in my
understanding makes him a loyal (despite Freddies indiscretions), and giving individual, He kept the Garden Lodge property completely
and perfectly landscaped which was such a tremendous source of peace and tranquility for Freddie, I think he was the absolute greatest
partner for Freddie. Physically, he was very much Freddie's type. He had a modest upbringing, and a simplicity about him that Freddie
loved. No, Jim should not be hated, he should be admired and THANKED for what he did for our Freddie!

thundergod user not visiting Queenzone.com

Bohemian: 940 posts
add to buddy list send PM

Posted: 21 Dec 17, 21:04 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hello Sheldon,
I think Freddie would be VERY happy that this tribute forum, dedicated mostly to him, would be fine with him as long
as he knew it was run by Kathleen and myself. We try to ignore and isolate certain haters and troublemakers and we
try to keep it clean. Being gay should no longer be considered a flaw in one's personality profile. I think Michelangelo
would be jealous that now he would not have to hide his homosexuality. Many creative and talented men are gay.
Perhaps the more talented of us practiced the piano and listened to opera incessantly rather than playing or watching
football incessantly. Lee and I mostly hope to reveal Freddie the man with his kindness, generosity, keen sense of humor
and loyalty to his close friends. The fact that some people try to insult and degregate this thread is just part of having
an open forum. I can hear Freddie say "oh Kathleen, oh Thor, thank you darlings for telling the story that could not
have been said before. And darlings thank you for treating my fans so nicely and keeping them happy."