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JB050 user not visiting Queenzone.com

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Posted: 01 Oct 19, 16:28 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

86-87 does not mention live aid just made me curious..... :))

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Posted: 01 Oct 19, 17:03 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

LilyA - gotta say, I'm pretty jealous you have an original signed copy! I have to keep checking it out of the library and who knows how long they're gonna let me do that!!

JB-thanks for the clarification with the page numbers. I couldn't find a Live Aid reference and was thinking we must have 2 different versions lol!! I think you may be onto something - lots of quotes from Freddie regarding how much thought he put into performances. What is that saying about when nothing is left give them fashion??? I know I have that wrong......

When I was looking for your reference though, I came across this in my notes..."His throat problems might have rendered Freddie speechless between shows but certainly didn't reduce him to helplessness, as an unlucky lady thief found out in Seattle. Freddie disturbed her in his hotel room pocketing his money and jewelry and gave chase. She was apprehended and arrested in the lobby". I think IHOW follows this story up with a quote about him yelling at her that she was a tart! I love that story! I could almost see him jumping on her and knocking her down like he did to Kenny Everett lol!!

MHZ - I feel it is important for everyone to have their own opinion and hope we can all share ours without being reduced to idiots when expressing them!!! Hopefully this thread remains a safe space for that.....

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Posted: 01 Oct 19, 23:43 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Amidds— HAHA!! That was such a great story. So true, can just visualize that. Now I’ll search my kindle IHOW for that quote. “Gotta” love Kindle search. :))

Ohh great quote! If memory serves, I remember seeing that in a few places, think one was Thor’s story and other may have been an interview. I’ll look for it. :))

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Posted: 02 Oct 19, 04:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Amidds- I found it...here is the beginning of the quote from IHOW—

“In America, we seemed dogged by bad luck. On tour there in 1975, a young American tart got into my hotel room and pilfered my jewels and bracelets. She was just evacuating the room when I accosted her by the elevator. I pulled her by the hair, dragged her back into the room, emptied the contents of her bag...”

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Posted: 02 Oct 19, 14:46 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

YES - that's the one! My memory isn't the best for details but I do know when something sounds familiar. I literally laughed out loud again reading that!

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Posted: 04 Oct 19, 13:23 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Referring back to David Minns, I recently watched the vid "We Thank You All". Minns is interviewed in it, mostly about FM's career and not their personal life (the caption for him was "friend" vs. "ex-boyfriend"). I believe it was done mid 90's? Anyway, David seems to be trying to contain some strong emotions at times. If you haven't seen it, I would recommend. I think it might even be on YouTube. You can see the love he has for Freddie and maybe puts into perspective the tone he had in his book???

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Posted: 05 Oct 19, 04:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Amidds!! Wow!! Thank you for mentioning this!!! I will look for that. Ya, You can really feel it from him.

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Posted: 07 Oct 19, 02:16 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Amidds— juggling between which thread best for this. Thought this would be perfect place for starters.
I really agree with you about reading and watching Dsvid s Minns talk about Queen and Freddie as someone not only so connected emotionally but also professionally, and as someone in the business, and having worked for Queen on the toad-as memory serves. He gives so much.

Days have gotten away, but I will be heading back to
This was the real life.

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Posted: 07 Oct 19, 11:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I don't want to get into the jim v mary issue but thought I'd chip in lol .

Jim told his side of the story and he had every right to do so. None of us were there so I feel we shouldn't question what he said did or didn't happen. However From what I take from the whole sad situation after reading both Jim and Phoebe's book (phoebe's second book ) is that they both knew the house was being left to Mary, Freddie had made this decision many years before even Phoebe and Jim knew Freddie. Jim had no problem with this, afterall he was having a bungalow built in Ireland. I feel it was how things were handled. Bearing in mind Jim was madly in love with Freddie and had shared his life with him , it must of been heartbreaking to be told to leave all the precious memories behind so soon and see the house turn into what looked like an auction house. They were moved in the mews and were only allowed into GL at certain times. These men wouldn't have taken anything that didn't belong to them. I've alsos read that the security appointed by Jim Beach were actually embarrassed at having to check what the three men were doing as they could see what was going on.
I'm not going to go into it any further other than to say in this situation I feel Jim was within his rights to feel bitter on top of being in emotional pain . Mary was in pain and so were the three men and so the way things were handled didn't seem to me to be well thought out. I finished both mens books feeling Freddie would have been disappointed with how his treasured friends were treated. This is Joe, Jim and Phoebe.

All in all its a terribly sad situation but as Amidds said Jim did say he had promised Freddie he would look after Mary and he did try to no avail.



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Posted: 07 Oct 19, 13:58 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

JB, know what you mean. Info we come across would be interesting on both boards!! No worries, I too have gotten bogged down lately and will be busy for the next week. How sad that I can't help but keep thinking about when I will have time to get back to my reading lol!

Doughnut-agreed! Plus, as I've mentioned, I think there's a whole lot we don't know about and things that weren't said so as not to stir up problems. Freddie built a house for Jim and bought one for Joe, I believe in an effort to "get them settled" before he passed and also due to the fact that there seemed to be problems between those two with Mary (not each other). He probably also thought Phoebe would carry on at GL in some manner as he had for the previous 12 years. Here is where the missing info would be useful: Jim Beach, being a lawyer, would have counseled Freddie on everything for his will/probate/whatever. Assuming he is a knowledgeable lawyer, why did these problems suddenly arise after Freddie's death? Late 80's/90's, gay people still didn't have much, if any, rights or legal protections as everyone else - even Phoebe mentioned this in a blog regarding a house he shared with a friend (years later). I believe that was the reasoning behind leaving everything to Mary along with assuming Jim and Joe would pass soon. (Nobody jump on me - YES, also because he trusted her!) He may have wanted to handle things differently, allowing a distribution that would be split between Mary and the boys but was advised that it could be contested and held up for years!! I think there's a lot there that a good UK lawyer who practiced at the time could clear up!

And yes, I believe Freddie would be DEEPLY saddened by how poorly everything was handled. Losing all those precious memories I had built up with a friend/husband would've made me bitter too - heaping more pain on to an already excruciating time. I do love how they were able to rise above it and move on with their lives and try to make amends with Mary.

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Posted: 07 Oct 19, 16:06 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I think these are some plausible theories on what happened with Jim after Freddie’s death, but there is still so much missing that I don’t think we can assume anything. Jim says he was reaching out to Mary, but what were those interactions like? We only have Jim’s account, and let’s be honest, he’s going to give a version that makes him look favorable. When he and Mary were alone, we have no clue what really occurred, and since Mary isn’t speaking we can’t take Jim’s account as being 100% accurate. Was Jim coming across to Mary as angry and bitter? We just don’t know. Was Mary avoiding Jim because she felt bad about what the courts were requiring, and handled things by avoiding the guys, which seemed like she was being nasty? Was Mary really thumbing her nose at the guys once Freddie was out of the picture? I find that hard to believe, but again, we don’t know. So I guess at the end of the day each of us can take away whatever version feels right to us.

One thing I do know after many years on this earth, is that some of the closest families I know have fallen apart fighting over an estate after a family member passes. And sadly, it seems like that’s a bit of the case here as well. I do wish it had been smoother for these guys. What I have trouble getting trying to understand, is why, if Freddie loved Jim as a husband, would he only leave him the same amount as Phoebe and Joe? And leave the rest to Mary? If he thought the guys wouldn’t be around too long, he could have made provisions for that portion of his estate to revert to Mary (or whoever) upon their passing. Eg. If he left half his estate to Jim, and then Jim died, that half moves over to being Mary’s. He did that with the portion he left to his parents, once they died he stipulated it to go to Mary. Was it the stigma of being gay, and perceiving it may hurt his parents somehow to know how much Jim meant to him by doing that? Perhaps, but he could have left much larger portions of his estate to each one than what he did. Now I am completely speculating on what Freddie thought, I sure wish Jim Beach could fill us in on why Freddie structured his will as he did!

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Posted: 07 Oct 19, 17:45 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

MyHumanZoo - you are absolutely right that we don't know and will probably never know. I guess it's just human nature to try to make sense of some things. You are also spot on with families fighting over estates - I have seen it many times and, so, in my family, we set up all the "necessary" paperwork to avoid any conflicts and make things easier. Maybe, luckily, I have a small family so it was gonna be easy anyway but, when my father then my brother passed, even with all that paperwork in place, my mom and I had so sign off on a bunch of stuff to protect estates/trusts and release any claims we still legally had. Kinda made the paperwork seem useless. But, all that brings me full circle to Jim Beach - none of that should've happened so either he was incompetent (which I don't believe), wasn't experienced in wills/estates (very possible as he is an entertainment and, therefore, contract lawyer) or things were left undone due to the advance of Freddie's illness. I honestly don't believe the amounts could be an indicator because homosexuality was illegal in England through 1994 and who knows what laws were on the books regarding estates passing thru probate (according to Mary, it still took YEARS), or passing it through multiple people every time someone passes and it has to go through probate again. I think Freddie did what he thought best based on the laws at the time, knowing close friends were dying, knowing he could trust Mary to follow his wishes and not wanting to burden his aging parents (plus, he seemed much closer with the family he "built"). We will never know because Jim Beach would have to break confidentiality to let the world know plus, it's really not our business. I wish it could've been handled better so as not to cause any additional suffering to anybody because there's no way Freddie would've wanted anyone to deal with that!!

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Posted: 09 Oct 19, 14:24 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

I find it kind of astonishing how many celebrities pass without having a will (like Prince) or maybe inadequate wills. You’d think with all that wealth they would button things up more neatly. But as with all of us, death is scary and some people just don’t care to look after those things, for a variety of reasons. In Freddie’s case, it does seem like he tried to make things well-arranged, I believe I read that several months prior to his death he got his will done with Jim Beach. I’m sure he wanted everything to be as smooth as possible for everyone and would have been sad to know that there were any ill feelings.

But enough of the sad discussion! : ). I did manage to get my hands on “As It Began” through a friend with access to more extensive library collections, so hopefully I’ll receive it soon and dive in. I’m excited!

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Posted: 09 Oct 19, 14:50 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Myhumanzoo all I can go on with regards to Mary change was via Thor and what he saw when he visited Peter at GL not long after Freddie's death and Shaun a Security Guard.
Given that noone has a bad word to say about Jim, I really doubt he was anything but kind to her.
Remember he was the one picked up by Freddie and thrown into Freddie's mad world.
It must have been quite difficult a times having to make sense of the world he was in and really all he did was fall in love with Freddie.

I hate it when people ask why Jim was left the same amount as Phoebe and Joe as that is so superficial. Jim had HIV and as far as Freddie knew, wasn;t going to live long term and the same with Joe. However, he had set them both up .Mary handled the financial side of GL and it's said that Freddie felt she was the only one who would be able to cope with it all. Remember there are ongoing bills to be paid etc etc . Its a massive commitment being left GL.
Don't look down on Freddie'ss relationship with Jim just because he wasn't left bricks and mortar of GL.

Mary hasn't written a book but in the things she has said, its painted quite a disturbing picture for me. She said she and Freddie knew he had aids during the magic tour....no one else has claimed this and this means he would have put Jim's life a risk knowing he had HIV. I really don't believe he would have done that.
She also claimed the men of GL left her and they were her family, that's not what happened according to two men..Jim and Phoebe.
She claimed the band were jealous of her being left GL and royalties. Very odd

Why do people pick at Jim for writing a book when Phoebe and even David Evans have written books giving away lots of details about freddie.
Phoebe goes into quite a lot of details about Mary and her relationship with Freddie .

Lets leave Jim alone and just accept that he and Freddie were a couple in difficult times (freddie couldn't publicy come out) and mary was his very good close loyal friend that he felt could handle what he was leaving her and that he would have been hers if he hadn't of broken her heart.

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Posted: 10 Oct 19, 15:38 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Hello all. This isn’t about As It Began, but have been lurking for a while, spurred by a renewed interest in Queen and Mercury. Listened to Queen in the 70s as a teen, though only on the radio as my musical interests were elsewhere. I liked Queen well enough, but with the movie, was reminded just how good the band was. Truthfully, I never realized the genius that was F Mercury. I should say that I didn’t particularly like the movie; I knew Mercury was gay, never thought of him otherwise, but was offended at implications that he was miserable in his homosexuality and a lost person, in part, because of it. In my quest to learn, I’ve discovered that the personal connections seem the truest telling of who this remarkable artist was as a man and have avoided the sensationalized bios. He was a character, to be sure, and an amazing musician. Thanks to the many QZ contributors who’ve steered me toward articles and books which draw a picture of him and to those who knew him who speak honestly; and to the interesting discussions on these threads—it’s taken some time to wade through it all.

And thanks doughnut for your response above. I have a hard time believing anyone who suggests that Freddie knew he was HIV/AIDS positive before the accepted April 1987 date. Jim said that after the positive diagnosis that they forevermore practiced safe sex and any suggestion that Freddie knew he was infected with the virus before that time means that he was cravenly irresponsible and infected Jim, his partner and the person he loved. I don’t recall which documentary it’s from, but Montserrat Caballe recalls that Freddie told her he had AIDS in 1988 when she lifted a glass of water (or something) to drink and he stopped her, because it was his glass of liquid. That’s not the act of a man who would have unprotected sexual relations with his partner if he knew he was ill. I recently read an article about Rudi Dolezal and at the end, he tells this story:
Near the end, Dolezal recalls, “We were in his house, sitting next to each other, watching television during the afternoon. There was no talk about AIDS.” When it came time to say goodbye, Dolezal was a little apprehensive. At the time there were all kinds of rumours about what caused the disease. And “usually when Freddie and I parted, we gave each other a kiss on the cheek,” a friendship kiss.
“There was no way I would ask Freddie.” Dolezal says. “It was a nice, friendly, intimate afternoon. It came to the moment when I left. And of course, I kissed him. Because I knew, and this is very important, he would have told me not to kiss him if it was dangerous. I was safe with him. That is how Freddie was. You were safe with him. He didn’t do anything behind your back.”


I just don’t buy anyone’s story who says that he knew before April 1987 that he was ill. My opinion is that it’s either folks wanting to ‘know more than everyone else’ or something passive aggressive to paint Freddie in a less than positive light.



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Posted: 10 Oct 19, 15:54 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thereuhaveit, well said and welcome!!! No worries about not posting about the book. Some of us just thought to open a new thread so we weren't clogging up another about what we were reading. Love to have open, friendly discussions about Freddie and Queen too tho!

It's kinda nice that someone agrees with me on the movie. I think it's wonderful that people are enjoying it but I have not been able to for many of the reasons you stated. I am especially excited to see Thor & Lee's book (have you seen that thread?) because they will show a part of his life that seems
to be missing from most other books/sites and they remember him as being so happy and accepting of himself. That was always the impression I had of him and I like to see that vs. the sad/confused Freddie I see sometimes!!

MHZ, so exciting that you will be getting the book!! I think you will really enjoy it. Even though it is more of a "fact" based book on their music and concerts, they are also some funny anecdotes included that help make it a fun read!

I just ordered Queen: Complete Works and expect it tomorrow, can't wait! The only problem is, I seem to have too many going right now and can't seem to keep up lol!

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Posted: 10 Oct 19, 20:09 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Thanks, Amidds. I have read through all the Thor and Lee threads, as well as other threads; quite a read here on QZ! It's been very interesting and enlightening, reading from those who knew Freddie, Jim, and the rest of the characters. As for books, I've read Jim Hutton's, both of Peter Freestone's and I have David Minns' book, though I'm currently reading something else. I agree that Thor and Lee's book should be a realistic view into part of Freddie's life where he could comfortably be who he was and live, at least somewhat, anonymously.

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Posted: 11 Oct 19, 20:13 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Amidds. Thank you for sharing that.... I didn’t realize you lost your Father and Brother. ((Sorry) Life sure looks different all the time, doesn’t it?

My Dad passed 5 years ago and still feels like yesterday. I was relating to the whirlwind of loss too.
And thinking how it’s really hard to know or imagine until you are in it. I had no idea and never thought about what happens to relationships when the person who was holding them all together is gone.

I think it was in Jim’s book when he said when Joe, Phoebe, and Jim got together and talked after Freddie passed, they learned more than they knew about each other.

I also think there is always potential for a dynamic that exists bringing people/families/friends and partners together.

In the end, I’m always so struck by Freddie’s deeply loving heart, complicated nature, level of intelligence and genius, protections he had to build up, and all that he held up.

Ya, I’d say, as analytical as I am my emotions lead the way and I felt so much emotion in David and Jim’s stories, and always with Phoebe of course.

My 3 cents. :))

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Posted: 11 Oct 19, 20:21 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

Amidds. I do understand where you come from re: movie. Even though I like it a lot: I have to separate what I know when watching. Then I have to watch an interview or actual concert footage after. Haha.
There is some great humor in it though too.

When I watch at home I fast forward through some parts.



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Posted: 12 Oct 19, 01:19 Edit this post Reply to this post Reply with Quote

JB, get what you’re saying about the movie and usually I can easily separate entertainment from “reality”. I really don’t know what my issue is with that lol! I’ve decided it is what it is and it’s a few bucks I will save when I don’t buy it!!

So sorry about your dad, JB! It sure is a whirlwind and it seems like nothing you do to prepare really makes a difference. I can’t imagine what it was like for Freddie, the boys and others like them that experienced so much loss in such a short time. It’s overwhelming! Sometimes I am so amazed at Phoebes (Thor, Lee, etc) strength and don’t know if I would have been able to deal with so much! I think that’s why I get upset when people judge them for writing books and sharing good memories about loved ones....they are turning such painful loss into something positive, healing and moving forward in a positive way and sharing that with others!!!

Ok, I only gave 2 cents vs your 3. One upper!! ;)